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Torrent #228304 ~~INCLUDES CHALLENGE TO ALL DIME UPLOADERS~~ Doc Watson & David Grisman March 22, 1998 Watsonville, CA onstage mikes digital master ** ANOTHER STU PEDASSO PRODUCTION **




#2957439 by easyed at 2008-12-21 20:45:26 GMT
~~~~~~ CHALLENGE TO ALL DIME UPLOADERS ~~~~~~

Here is a challenge to all DIME uploaders

Provide a sound sample.

Provide detailed lineage.

By lineage I mean as much information about the recording, transfer and copying as is possible to specify.

My intent is not to pick on anyone. This is a request for information. Why should you do this? To join the community of tapers and sharers who care about how recordings are done. And to better enable DIMErs to decide whether any given torrent is something they want to download based on objective information rather than just based on self-praise. I've noticed that on DIME that when somebody adds any comment that is in any way critical or non-flattering about a recording they are slammed and ridiculed and told to shut up and just don't download if you don't like it, told not to say anything if you don't have anything nice to say. Well, this gives us a way to evaluate a recording objectively without having to post any comments that may upset people.

What kind of recording device was used? Model number?

If you used tape, what kind of tape? Was it recorded with Dolby B, Dolby C or DBX on? If the recording device had automatic level control, was it on or off?

What brand microphone(s) were used? Where exactly in the audience were the mikes placed? FOB is not an answer. 3rd row, 35 feet from left speaker stack - that would be an answer. Or balcony center, 200 feet from stage - that would be an answer.

By transfer I mean from the original recording device and/or media to what is being offered on DIME. What was the playback device (model number)? Analog or digital output (if digital, coax or optical)? Was it played back with Dolby B, Dolby C or DBX off or on? What kind of sound card or A>D converter or audio interface was used to get the sound into the computer? If the built in sound input on the motherboard, please say so. Or an aftermarket soundcard, like a Creative Labs Soundblaster, please specify the exact model. Or if you took the analog output of the playback unit and plugged it into a standalone cd recorder, what was the model of the cd recorder? Was tracking done on the fly during the transfer, or in the computer afterwards? Was EAC, or audio extraction done from a burned cdr to make .wav or .aif files on your computer? If so, what software (eg., EAC) and what settings were used.

If you can't remember some of the specifics, provide what information you can, for example, "inexpensive Sony stereo mike".

This is not a demand, this is a request. The more of this information you can provide, the better many of us will be able to predict how the recording will sound. If you specify "Microtrack 24/96 with built in mike, in shirt pocket, 15 feet from stage in a small jazz club" or "Microtrack 24/96 with built in mike, taped to railing, first row balcony center about 200 feet from the stage" many of us can get an idea (combined with what kind of music it is, ie., rock, jazz, acoustic, etc.) how the recording may sound.

Plus, the more information that is provided on the lineage the better we can predict how much the original recording has been degraded. For example, audience recording using Aiwa stereo mike (model unknown, paid less than $100 in 1994) > minidisc > analog out > PC built in sound card > Audacity > cdr > EAC > flac, tells us that at 2 steps the recording has been unnecessarily degraded (1= analog out of MD, 2= PC built in sound card). It's not to say anyone was wrong to have used that equipment or done the transfer that way or that the recording is worthless, it's just that having that information gives many of us a better idea of what to expect of the recording.



Here is an example of lineage well detailed provided by a recent DIME torrent: "4 track post-mix: {([2] AKG c452eb/ck22 (A-B, split ~ 35-40', 36" high and ~ 6-7' back from each main in front of pews) -> Aerco MP2 -> AD2K+ @ 24bit/48KHz -> coax s/pdif) + (SBD L/R (TRS main outputs))} -> MOTU Traveler/PowerBook G4/Digital Performer 5.1 -> SDII Mono files Lineage: MOTU Traveler/PowerBook G4/Digital Performer 5.1 -> SDII mono files (set 4 track mix w/ FX (para EQ, light compression, limiter, peak normalize); bounce to disc; split tracks; resample/dither to 6bit/44.1KHz) -> .aiff -> xACT v1.58 -> FLAC (level 8)"

Here is an example of lineage well detailed provided by a recent DIME torrent: "Source Info: Schoeps CCM4's > SD744T @ 24/96 > firewire to hard drive of dedicated music only computer > Bit Conversion and re-sampled to 16/44.1 with Sound Forge 7.0 > indexed in Sound Forge 4.5 > CD set up with CD Architect 4.5 > CD burned with CD Architect 5.0 onto Mitsui Gold CD > Extracted to Internet Capable Computer with EAC > FLAC. Recorded from Floor Section 6, Row B, approx 5 seats right of center."

Here is another example lineage well detailed provided by a recent DIME torrent: 2 DAK-5245 Mics>Sony WM-D6c Cassette Recorder (Dolby C On)>Master Cassette (TDK-SA-X90)>Yamaha Natural Sound Stereo Double Cassette Deck K-902 (Dolby C Off)>CD Wave Editor>TLH flac level 8. We were sitting about 30' in front of the stage left speaker stacks" This tells us everything we need to know except how the transfer was made to the computer, ie., what soundcard or digital audio interface was used.

Here is an example of lineage given on a recent DIME torrent that leaves many details unspecified: "SONY D8 DAT MASTER>XL2S CASSETTE>STAND ALONE BURNER>WAV>FLAC" which leaves open the questions "what kind of mikes?, where in the audience were the mikes placed? what model of standalone burner? what program was used to extract .wav files from the cd?", but nonetheless gives us some idea of the lineage of the recording, ie., a DAT audience master copied to cassette copied to a standalone cd recorder to a cdr to a computer (wav files) to FLAC files.

Here is another example of lineage given on a recent DIME torrent that leaves virtually all details unspecified: "Cassette Master -> Untracked Aiff File -> Soundforge -> FLAC"

Invitation:

If folks can think of other details that should be given when detailing lineage, please speak up. Also if folks have ideas on how to improve a transfer, I welcome hearing about them. For example, someone might say "instead of using 'tools > extract regions' in Sound Forge and then FLAC to create flac files, you should try .... because ...."

I suspect that people who resist providing these details care more about having their egos stroked than they do about improving the quality of their recordings and their sharing.